The Power of Consumer Research
Jess and Danielle dive deep into why a solid brand voice matters, the perks of knowing your customers, and innovating marketing moves. Get hyped by Danielle's herbalism journey and her tips for ace product development.
(water splashing)
- My name is Jess Servion,
and I'm super excited to bring you my new podcast,
The Juice With Jess.
This podcast, he's gonna be about everything
in your customer's journey.
We're talking acquisition, awareness,
making that purchase, retaining that customer,
bringing them back around, and everything in between.
This is gonna be all about delivering dope brand experiences
and talking to some really amazing people
who are in the customer experience space,
the marketing space, and everything in between.
(upbeat music)
Welcome back to another episode of The Juice With Jess.
Apparently, I love to repeat my name, 'cause I am Jess.
This week, I am joined by my new friend, Danielle Dawson.
Danielle will tell you a little bit about herself in a second,
but I just wanna say we literally just met in the lobby
of the recording studio.
We became best friends, so this is gonna be a great episode.
- Yes.
- Danielle, do you wanna tell the audience
a little bit about yourself?
- Yeah, sure, thanks for having me.
I'm so excited to be here.
I'm Danielle, I'm a registered herbalist
with the American Herbalist Guild.
I'm a certified holistic nutritionist.
Day to day, I run education and innovation
at a CBG company called For Signatic.
I wrote a book last year on adaptogens,
so we can dive into all sorts of things,
but really just love plants and mushrooms
and spreading the love about these incredible allies
that I think are so underutilized
and really, really needed in today's world.
- I am Shukith.
I have to be honest with you, I am Shukith.
You guys do not realize this, Danielle is a baddie, man.
This is awesome.
For her to talk through her entire pedigree like that,
it's awesome, so let's just start there.
How did you get into herbalism?
- This is a great question.
It's not one of those things where you're like,
oh, as a little girl, I want to be an herbalist.
That never crossed my mind, which is beautiful
because it's a very organic path.
And when I look back, I'm like, wow,
how did I dedicate my life to plants and mushrooms?
And every step, there's all these pivotal moments
of my life that now I'm like, oh,
that was guiding me closer and closer to where I am today.
So grew up, my mom would brew kombucha in my kitchen
before there was ever bottled kombucha on the shelf.
My friends would come over and be like,
what is this weird growth on your counter?
Was fed hemp cereal and dressed in hemp clothing.
And so there was that early influence.
And then I became a really big environmentalist,
was kind of my initial path.
And it was kind of the point, the more you understand
what's going on with our planet,
it can be really aggravating, you get really angry.
So I was a really full on angry activist.
Like I was protesting, I was speaking at these
power shift conferences, like in the streets,
picketing for years.
Like that was my full, full job.
And in the process, which is people might relate to this,
if you're like really dedicated to a cause,
you forgo your own health and wellbeing.
And so I had a really strict diet, raw vegan, right?
It was the best thing for the planet.
So I thought and was really sick in a lot of ways.
There was like several days a month
that I couldn't get out of bed.
And I went to different practitioners
and they were like, you need to start incorporating eggs.
You need to start incorporating fish.
Like your body is deprived of these critical nutrients
that allow you to function optimally
and like get up and do your thing.
And so it was like this wild kind of like back and forth
in my mind where I thought, okay, I could either lose
like a couple days a month versus, you know,
and be in bed and not being able to go out in the world
and do my thing.
Or I could incorporate some of these foods into my diet
and get that time back.
And what could I do?
My justification was like, what could I do for the planet
if I were able to get this amount of days back every month
to go out and organize and protest or whatever.
So that was this really pivotal moment
where I not only was able to support my own body,
but I started looking around and I'm like,
if all of us are chronically stressed,
we've talked about that already this morning,
nutrient deficient, right?
We're struggling in all sorts of ways, right?
We all have our own rolodex of issues that we're dealing with.
How can we expect anyone to show up
and do their work in the world, whatever that work is,
you know, if they're not coming from a full place?
So it really took, anyways, I moved to Asia,
which was another part of the journey.
I lived there three years.
- Shook.
- Quite this woman.
- And it was like this moment where everything shifted
from being really external to focusing on people
and humans and human health.
And let's start with ourselves, right?
Zone zero to be able to heal and nurture, replenish,
and then from that place, we can all blossom
and like do whatever it is we're meant to do
without it being depleting to us.
So anyways, with the environmental background,
we could go deep into, you know,
- Well, okay, so I mean, I think this is like amazing, right?
Like I think this journey is amazing
because this even speaks to like who I am as a person.
Like we were briefly saying,
while coming up here that like I live in Chicago today,
but I'm in Los Angeles, like at the moment,
interview Danielle and California has like
just such like a very like woo environment, right?
But it's really hard to find that woo environment
in other places like I've struggled to find a lot
of like really like even breath work
and like great acupuncturists and like all these things
and like in Chicago.
And so I think it's really interesting.
I mean, granted like, for sigma,
isn't like all of those things,
but I would really love to hear
how was your journey getting into for sigma,
if you were so free and you were doing all these other things,
like how did you kind of go into like,
I'm gonna work at this company
and do something very technical,
like being a product marketing manager.
- Yeah, totally.
Never thought I would work for a brand.
I come from a family of entrepreneurs
and I had my own clinical practice
and was seeing my clients and doing one-on-one work.
And you know, so I, yeah,
when I opened my private practice for herbal medicine,
I didn't know what type of people would show up.
And the theme over and over again was like Danielle,
I've tried all these practitioners,
you're my last resort.
This is my last stop.
And so what that brought was a lot of autoimmunity,
a lot of chronic illness,
a lot of ailments that the Western world didn't have
a name or a diagnosis for.
They were like, nothing's wrong with you.
And yet those type of cases were like chronic EMF sensitivity,
like real issues where people, you know,
weren't sleeping for 20 years and had chronic headaches,
but we didn't have a name for it.
And so what that brought me to do was kind of the overarching
thread between all these client profiles
was gut health and immune
compromising of some sort,
whether it was overactive or underactive immunity.
And so I started focusing on mushrooms.
We can get really into why that is,
but mushrooms are functional mushrooms,
specifically are immunomodulators.
So they have this incredible ability to essentially balance
our immune system.
They work within our gut, right?
70% of our immune systems located in our gut.
So seeing people's like vitality come back.
Some people that had been trying to work on whatever
ex-elmen it was for decades.
And while I like fell in love
with what these functional mushrooms were doing
and mushrooms were not cool then.
This was like 10 years ago.
- You were on the prepsit,
how do you say that word?
Prepsit, prepsit.
- Prepsit, yes. - Prepsit,
we got it.
- I was supposed to say prepsit.
We're picking up where you're from, Dad.
- You were on the precipice of this movement.
I think that's--
- Yeah.
- Which is so interesting about consumers,
'cause then when you get to that moment,
then it's like we hype it up.
Totally, we're like mine at all, you know?
- I'm using these all along.
We're just like the last ones to catch on in the West.
But fast forward forcing Maddox,
in this private practice,
I'm like mushrooms are incredible.
And a lot of my day to day
was like sitting with people, holding space,
especially with chronic illness and autoimmunity.
It's very emotional and spiritual as well.
And I had no training in that.
I'm like, I can tell you about your organ systems
and the plants and create a great formula for you,
but like holding that space,
and like this is not my calling.
So I ended up closing my private practice
and was like what else,
how else can I dedicate my life
to bringing these species out into a greater public eye?
And anyways, I found forcing Maddox
in my private practice.
I was recommending forcing Maddox to several clients.
It's like an easy way to get super high quality
functional mushroom extracts into their diet.
And there was like a total,
lots of twists of fate that happened
where there was a breakup in my life,
which is now my husband.
I went, I had to reroute flights.
And anyways, I had, my husband had found like,
oh, forcing Maddox is looking at the time.
It was a national educator.
And I was like, no, no, no, like that's not,
but I was super lost.
We were going through this, we were moving.
So I didn't even really remember.
I think he may be sent a resume something.
It went off.
And like this day that I had to reroute my flights
from Washington to California, I was in LA,
and I get a call from Taro,
who's now one of my dearest friends in our CEO and founder,
and was like, hey, you know,
I'd love to interview for this position.
I'm like, what?
Position?
You're like, sir, what?
And he's like, problem is like,
I need you to be in California.
I'm like, I'm in California.
It's like, I need you to be in LA.
Like I'm actually here, I just landed.
But I was like, red face crying.
I'm like, my life is falling apart.
It's like, well, I'm in Marina Del Rey.
I was at my mom's house, which is in Marina Del Rey.
Turns out we're like a block away from each other.
Wow. It was bizarre.
And he's like, let's me, let's go for a walk.
So anyways, it was like totally meant to be in serendipitous.
And that was six years ago.
Yeah.
And I've been able to basically do all the things I love
with plants and fungi, create our formulas.
So was doing--
Wow. Yeah.
And then customer service side,
we all wear a lot of hats there.
Yeah, well, I mean, welcome to the start of work.
Exactly.
I mean, exactly.
Real.
Yes.
And we were in all the hats.
We were all the hats.
But I think that's really amazing.
I mean, going to customer experience
and like, you know, the whole basis of this podcast, right?
I actually think that this journey,
your personal journey, as well as the customer journey
is so interesting here because--
So for two reasons, one, as customer experience leaders,
as people who naturally fall into customer experience,
or even brand experience and brand marketing,
we are naturally empathetic people.
Totally.
And you don't fight me on this,
but straight up, we are naturally empathetic people.
And like, because if you want to take care of your customers
and you want to do any sort of customer marketing,
you have to understand consumer behavior, right?
You have to understand consumer behavior
and you have to like understand how like people
like kind of function the feels, the ones of like
why they want a product for me.
Yes.
And it is, though, as I think your journey is like really,
obviously like, I told you I'm like shook it,
but like also, I think it's really interesting and amazing
because you were already in these like naturally empathetic
types of roles of taking care of people.
And so then to fall into for some,
it's a matic and you know, yes,
you're, for all intents, purposes, your title is one thing,
right?
But ultimately, you're taking care of your customers
and you're bringing a product to the market
to take care of your customers,
but you ultimately understand that customer journey.
Right.
So much.
Yes.
So I actually have a question because, you know,
we talk a lot, this is very like a technical question,
but we talk a lot about, you know,
customer journeys from acquisition to retention.
What does acquisition look like for for sigma addict?
Like, what does that community look like
and how do you acquire that customer?
It looks like a lot of different things.
This is a great question.
We, well, I think we have to look at where we sell
to be like, okay, where are our customers coming from?
So we started as a primarily D2C brand,
then we ventured into Amazon,
but we were actually started in Finland.
So we're sold in 65 countries.
We're on D2C, but in the last couple of years,
we've really made retail a priority.
So of course, like the natural space,
Whole Foods, Sprouts, Natural Grocers,
some of those big HEB,
it's probably different Kroger banners things.
- Yeah, yeah, I worked at festivals
and that was international.
I know these banners, but yeah.
- It's interesting,
so our customers are coming from all over the world
and in all different channels.
And typically it's like, you're really good in either D2C
or you're really good in retail.
We're trying to do it all, which has been really interesting.
But, oh, and our customers have changed.
So this is something we're constantly doing
different like consumer brand studies
and really try and understand who is our customer now
and how can we continue to grow that customer base.
So when we started, we've been around for 12 years,
it was these trendsetters, right?
So it was like, who's interested in the new, cool, trendy,
we're like, those are kind of fair weather consumers
where they're not gonna stick with you.
They always want what's new and what's next.
So we've identified who our consumer is,
which I think is really important.
It's like, in my opinion,
I'm like, I want everyone to take functional mushrooms
and adaptogens, like we could all benefit from it.
But when it comes to acquisition,
you gotta get really clear about who is the right fit
for your brand at the given time.
And so I think that's step one.
And there's so many amazing tools out there that we use
to identify, you know, if you're the primary shopper
in your home, what's your age group?
What's your age range?
Do you have kids?
Are you willing to spend X amount in the coffee aisle?
Are you willing to spend X amount in the supplement aisle?
Like really getting honed in on who you're targeting.
And then from there, you can develop ad content.
You can develop your entire brand strategy,
your voice, your communication,
based on that consumer and the channel
that you're speaking to them in.
So like something that's really helpful for me to remember
is like a brand is its own personality.
And just like us, it's like we present ourselves differently
on LinkedIn versus on Instagram versus in a podcast
versus like with our friend group, right?
But it doesn't like our core of who we are is the same.
And that's been probably our biggest challenge,
but also like biggest growth opportunity is being like,
okay, who are we?
It's kind of hard to understand.
We're like infusing all these mushrooms and plants
into coffee, but also capsules
and different supplements and blends and creamers.
Yeah.
But we're still who we are at the core.
We just have to change the way that we're targeting
and we're talking to consumers
based on where they're coming to us from.
So like in retail, there's a different strategy
than on D2C, than on email,
but there's that like has to be that omnichannel,
consistent thread, right?
Through all of it. So you're not like this person, this brand.
Yeah.
You want to build that trust and authenticity.
Right. Absolutely.
Absolutely. I mean, we talk about this a lot
in like the brand experience space
and like just marketing and customer experience.
It's like, it's really amazing when a brand falls into retail
and you know, they're on Amazon and they're all
on these channels and they're social, but like your voice
has to be very consistent across the board.
And not only does your voice have to be very consistent,
but your experience of the brand,
like an I mean a customer experience, right?
So it's like, let's say I'm in HEB, right?
In the UK and I'm also in like,
I don't know, Albertsons in Chicago, right?
Like if I'm a customer that picks up your brand,
whether it be HEB Albertsons
and then I reach out to the info at yourbrandsname.com,
that voice needs to be so consistent.
Yes. It doesn't matter if your customers from the UK
or they're from the States, like you have to be able
to service them in like in the same consistent voice.
And then that still apply, that same thing applies
for like social or Amazon or DTC.
But and I don't see a lot of brands getting
that wrong necessarily, but I do see a lot of brands
not understanding that if that makes sense.
Totally, right? Yes.
And I think the last, the last point about that is it's like,
I don't think, I see a lot of people who like
don't necessarily understand it, but so then when they think
about like their servicing department or their marketing
or any of those pieces, they're not taking into effect
the different customer personas.
Your customer, and that's the other thing is like,
your customer personas expand.
Yes. You know, like they're not all,
year one versus year six are completely different.
Yes, absolutely.
And we want to do things as a brand and you have to,
if you want to take risks and really like express
your brand personality and not play it safe,
which is something that I think people love us for,
there's all, you also have to be okay with some customers
are not going to like that, right?
And you, and you have to, yeah, it's like this interesting
challenge our, our CEO and I, we recently wrote a tarot deck,
which has been something we've like been really excited about
for years, like this is a super cool educational tool
and the major Arcana are the mushrooms and the minor Arcana
are all these plants and adaptogens and people can pick
the card and they learn about, you know,
the benefits of Oshwagonda, but then also the energetics.
And I was just looking through, you know,
customer service always trying to be like,
what are themes and what are the positive reviews?
What are the negatives?
And we had, you know, a slew of, we have a strong membership
program, subscribe and save.
And we had a slew of members that left,
I know like I love your product, but I can't support
a brand that does tarot cards.
And it was, and it's so interesting.
It's like when we talk about that woo woo,
we're like really trying to,
find a balance line between being cool and innovative
and quirky and like a tarot deck.
I'm like, yeah, this is awesome.
And in order to do something like that
and not just sell or gift another mug or another magnet,
right, which would be really safe in order to acquire
customers, like we use this tarot deck as an acquisition
tool. And so we said, you know, buy our new
ThinkStarter Kit and you get a free tarot deck.
And we got, you know, several hundred people in a couple
weeks joining, which is awesome.
And then we have, you know, this slew way less,
but I think like I'm no longer interested.
And so yeah, it's a balance, it's a balance.
But I think that's such a valuable story to tell
because basically what you're saying is like,
is exactly what I'm saying, right?
Like you have your customer base changes,
but also what would be interesting,
an interesting like tidbit on that is like segmentation.
I guess you wouldn't have known that like some
of your customers wouldn't have been about that, right?
But now you do know.
Right.
And so then maybe to even acquire them back,
you're like, well, yeah, probably not the super woo woo
but let me tell you about the mushroom education, right?
Totally.
In a different way, right?
Yes.
But I don't think the thing is that you never really know
unless you do consumer research.
Yeah.
Which is so important.
I'm like, oh my gosh.
I understand it.
Yeah.
In just so many ways, I think it's something
that we've continuously learned is we have a lot of ideas
and we're like, yeah, we want to launch this
and this would be super cool.
And it's worked many times.
We've also discontinued probably as many products
as we've launched, right?
Again, with continuing times.
But instead of just like, we have this idea,
let's put it out into the world,
consumer research, consumer research, focus groups,
like ask who is your target?
And then having this core group of real humans
who you get to ask questions to
that aren't even related to your brand, right?
You want to know and we do like a quarterly focus group
interview with this core group of consumers
of like, what new podcasts are you listening to?
You know, what brands are you excited about?
Are there ingredients that have caught your eye?
Yeah.
And so the formats are exciting right now
and having that like real customer input and guide,
I'm in an interesting role 'cause I do innovation
as well as customer service and education.
So it's all bleeding into each other.
But the most important thing is we have to listen
to the people that we're actually creating this for, right?
And what do they want and what are they gonna use?
And that's just been a huge learning.
Yeah, absolutely. I think like a lot of,
I think it's really interesting because a lot of brands
actually don't do consumer research.
I've come across that, right?
Like in my agency consulting stuff,
like I actually offer that as a part of my services
like doing consumer research.
And like, and I don't, and this isn't like a plug for that.
I'm just saying because I've found that it is a need, right?
Like a lot of brands will like go and like pay other services
to do it, but then maybe like not utilize it.
But really you have so much data.
Yeah, it was so much fucking data.
Totally. In your service department,
in your reviews and like your subscription programs.
And like really if you just like quantitate it
and qualitative, right?
Like you like, and I know it's, it varies,
every tool varies to like do these things,
but like you can get a little scrappy with it.
Totally. Right?
And like you start there, that's your first level.
It's like you take with the information that you have,
then you start serving your customer,
then you start doing taste testing, right?
Like going out to different, right?
And like going out to even different markets.
And like that is a piece of not only just, you know,
retention, awareness, it could be a level of acquisition.
Like you're going out and doing taste testing,
like live and in real life,
that in real life brand experience,
that's a whole new audience you can acquire.
Totally. And I would love to do that.
That's definitely something on the horizon.
'Cause we have an internal group of people
that I do tastings with, you know, with NPD,
with new product development.
And yet we're like, okay, if we wanna reach that person,
you have to sometimes, sometimes you are the consumer
and sometimes you're not, right?
And so it's like, well, do I add powdered creamer
into my coffee? Not necessarily, but a lot of people do.
Right. So if I'm gonna create that,
literally getting into the head of your consumer,
like okay, what are they looking for?
They're looking for dissolvability.
They're looking for this type of flavor profile
or looking for, you know, whatever ingredients
on the clean label.
And yeah, consumers wanna help.
Like I would be honored, the brands that I love.
They're like, hey, can you help us develop
this new product?
Like we want your opinion.
You feel so valued, you feel part of a community.
And that's something we're constantly trying to do
and talk about like changing times,
is how do we develop, especially like our membership program.
We're like, we don't want it to just be discounting.
Right, well. And that's horrible for our P&L.
Yeah. And too, like, you don't get a lot of value
from that. And then people just, you know,
they're only in it for the discount.
No, absolutely.
There, like, there's a couple of brands
that kind of have like a lot of rapid growth
that I like help out, right?
And that was the first thing.
I was like, we done with the discounting, my friends.
Yeah. Because you're like, it's fine to discount
to acquire customer for sure.
Like, but you can't just be so overly of a discount brand.
Like, I actually see this a lot too.
Like when you discount so much, the customer then expects it.
So then when you're trying to draw back that behavior,
then you end up going through this like ebb and flow
of like pissed off customers.
Yeah. Right? Because they expected it from you.
So if you start off in the beginning of like,
okay, just like traditional discounting
as far as like join my list, do these things, right?
Then like that's gonna be far better than you being like,
oh, you didn't like it.
Okay, let me give you a discount on this
or let me give you a discount to bring you in the door.
No, like educate and bring them in the door
in a different manner.
Yes. Which is so hard to do.
I'm like thinking about our customer service
and we're so, we've had the same policy
for 12 years since we started where it's like,
if you don't like it for any reason,
money that guaranteed.
Yeah. Right? And that's a beautiful thing that we do.
And it's like, my team is like,
hey, we're being taken advantage of.
Like how do we get around this?
And again, it's this dance and I think every company's different.
But to really like have that next level of communication
with a customer instead of just like,
okay, no problem here.
I'm trying to have those like one touch tickets
as much as possible. Right.
I would rather have three touch tickets and say,
hey, like maybe they were using it in the wrong way.
You know, and they didn't know,
they're like, I don't like this because it doesn't dissolve,
for example, like with our product,
we don't use any sort of dissolve in agents, right?
There's no like acacia gums or multidextrin or these things.
So like you've got to use warm water and a frother
and right to have this really good, beautiful experience
with your mushroom coffee.
But if we're not educating on that,
like we're just going to keep getting into the same problem.
Right. So it's like dig a layer deeper to see if you can,
I mean, it's helping the customer more and helping your brand more.
But yeah, that education also looks different for many people.
Like we've written three books and we have,
it did like a free mushroom academy online.
There's like a YouTube video series and I mean,
all sorts of fun, funky tools, pre pandemic,
we would do like meetups and coffee, meet and greet
in the morning with our members.
We have like a shroom room in New York,
which is, you know, come in and have a free beverage,
you know, to taste whatever you want on us.
The next time I'm in New York, I'm going to that.
Oh yeah, it's so much fun.
But yeah, it's like education also looks different.
And you don't want to like bombard someone with education
if they're not ready for it.
And if it's the wrong platform for that.
So we're trying lots of new things where it's like,
instead of just gifting discounts and more free swag
with your first purchase as a member,
we're giving you 10% of the book that Tarot and I just wrote,
right, to really understand in a digital copy, like ebook,
these are why adaptions are important.
And like use that as a retention tool,
which also empowers the consumer too
to be like, this is why I'm taking this.
Yeah.
But yeah, we'll see.
Well, you answered my question because I was actually
going to ask you about education.
It sounds like you have so many tools.
And I think that that's really like amazing and fascinating.
Yeah.
I think not just in like CPG,
I also think in like anything,
it could be you could be a diaper brand, right?
Totally.
Like you need to educate your consumer
on how to utilize your product, right?
Yes.
And so education is really important
and it can look in so many different forms, you know?
Yes.
Guess what, fam?
The customer community is back.
If you're not already familiar with the community,
you can sign up to get your questions answered,
discuss best practices and connect with other professionals
in the CX space.
Check it out today at community.customer.com.
See you there.
I'm curious, like, what does your community look like?
Are you on Facebook?
Are you in socials?
Like where are you?
Where's that audience?
Great question.
I feel like we've dabbled in it all.
We had, several years ago, we had a couple really active,
we have two really active Facebook groups
that were kind of like, do we reactivate them?
Do we not?
We are on multiple social platforms.
So from LinkedIn to social to TikTok,
we have a really active, like robust email listserv.
It's really interesting because we're a lean team
and we're having to make these tough decisions
to really say, is it better to spread ourselves really thin
and kind of be able to post or engage
or not get back to everyone in all of these different channels?
Or do we really wanna choose,
like we're just gonna lean really hard
into TikTok education and, you know,
like a new strategy on social to keep people educated
and not feel like we're just a sales pitch everywhere?
Balance, that's also a place of like,
kind of unbalanced in that.
Yeah, you know.
So we're kind of in a place where we're like less but better.
Like let's reduce, we just can't be everywhere
and do everything well.
Yeah.
And it's tough, right?
It's almost like you lose a couple of customers
to gain a few hundred, right?
Whereas that it's the same conversation
where we're foregoing this community over here
to really lean into our community right here
and know that we can respond to every DM and every comment
and like be super there for our consumers
and they'll know that and they'll trust us
but they have to find us in that platform.
That is the best advice that you can give to a,
like a brand, up and coming or in a revamp stage
or wherever is like look at your channels,
look at your community channels
and you don't have to be everywhere for everyone.
And you can't.
You can't, you absolutely can't.
You also, you wanna just hone in on the communities
that are really, you know, going well
that have the best engagement, right?
Yes.
Like you don't wanna just be like,
okay I'm gonna go on Facebook
and yes that's one type of audience there.
Let's be real.
There's literally one type of audience in Facebook.
But then there's like another audience in Instagram.
There's another audience in TikTok, right?
Like there's another audience in your SMS channel.
Totally.
Like all of these channels are very different.
So you wanna just hone in on where you have
the most engagement, where your customers
are talking the most and like that's how you build community.
It's not just like, okay my people are everywhere
and they're all over the place
and this is really great.
No, hone in on the channel that they're the most active in
because that is also going to give, you know,
for better or worse, don't hate me when I say this,
the illusion that you have the higher engagement
in that channel, right?
Really?
Yeah, yeah.
And pushing people there.
Yeah.
How do you, you know, I know you have like
the membership services or subscriptions.
And you obviously have like your new customers,
like all of that.
But how do you, in the education pieces,
but how do you actually push people to these communities?
Like how are you doing that marketing?
Are you saying like, is it an emails and SMS?
Like is it in the box?
Like what's your check tip?
We're talking about like top of funnel,
how do we like get these consumers in?
Yeah.
It depends on the month.
It depends on the season, right?
So it's really, and I'm not just like trying
to avoid the question, but it's, again,
it comes back to the consumer.
Where are they and what are they looking for
at different times of year?
So instead of just like pushing mushroom coffee
all the time, it's like, we know January is new year new week,
right?
So people are more open to adopting a new habit
during that early months of the year.
Back to school is a really big time for us, right?
We have our young moms is our main target audience.
And so they're shopping, they're coming, they're like,
okay, I need to get back into my routine
and get back into my lion's mane every morning.
Like I gotta get focused.
And so it's speaking to the consumers where they're at.
And you know, some months it's more getting full new adopters.
Like someone who's never had mushroom coffee,
let's like bring them over other months.
It's, let's get our existing consumers,
let's introduce them to another product, right?
Let's get them like deeper into the funnel.
So if they're already a mushroom coffee consumer,
let's introduce them to a plant-based creamer
or a blend that they can boost into their coffee
or maybe they also want to make smoothies
or maybe they have nailed their morning routine.
Let's start introducing them to this evening routine.
But yeah, we use all sorts of aiming paid organic.
Like we're like far reaching.
And then a retail is like a whole nother strategy.
That's a huge part of our business
that I don't touch as much.
My involvement is that is making sure
that there's so many people that are out
supporting your retail business.
We're in about 5,000 dollars in the US.
And so what that means is, you know, there's demo reps.
We have our brokers.
They have to be passionate and educated
and feel supported from the brand
to be able to go out and restock the shelf
or go talk to a buyer and be like, hey,
there's another skew of, you know,
you have the ground coffee.
What about the whole bean, right?
They're the people in the field.
And so how do we use our resources internally
to educate our brokers, educate, you know,
and make sure that they're constantly using our products too.
All right, so it's this like twofold one,
remind them why they need it, why they need to use it.
And then two, sampling is so huge.
Again, it depends on the industry,
but something where people are like,
I'm not sure how that's gonna taste
is a massive tool for us.
So we're like sampling whether it's boxes,
like you get your FabFitFun or whatever box, you know,
or demos, events, like where are our people?
That's a warmer audience and let's bring a bunch of,
you know, let them try mushroom coffee
and fall in love with it.
And that's huge, like trial is so important for us.
Yeah, sampling, that's a really good call out too.
Yeah, I mean, people hear mushroom coffee
and they're like, yeah, no way.
You know, unless they get a free coffee in front of them.
Oh, that's nice.
Yeah, so this like combination of trial, education,
and then hopefully, you know, you acquire that customer
and continue to educate and remind them
why this is important, the necessity of having a routine
around this product.
Yeah, the routine too, that's a good call out.
Yeah.
So switching gears completely from just, you know,
for sigma-tic, like, I wanna ask you some questions
about your favorite brands.
Cool.
What those brands are doing.
So what's a brand that you think is doing really well
in product marketing?
One of my favorites right now is fly by Jing.
Oh.
I think they're coaching it.
Love them, love them.
Yeah.
Like, a label, the product, it's so--
Even the imagery, like, you look at their social,
it's like, oh my God, that looks delicious and divine
and like, indulgent.
And you just wanna like drizzle this chili oil
on everything and anything you're consuming.
Which I do.
Same all the time.
Everywhere.
All the time.
And I think something they're doing phenomenal at is,
one, speaking to consumers where they're at, right?
Having a really long lead time of like,
what's gonna be cool next year?
Like, is there a movie coming out?
Is there like something that we can be really relevant
and doing a lot of brand partnerships
and tapping into like social relevant situations?
Yes.
And it, like, that becomes really cool.
You know, they're partnering with all sorts of great people.
And I think they have the ability and the space to do that
because they have, I mean, again,
just comparing to Forsematic,
they have a smaller portfolio.
Yeah.
Right, so they have like, these are their products.
This is their branding and that's not changing.
Our brand, you know, and there's others,
but we're constantly being like,
how do we communicate what we are
just from a packaging level?
Yeah.
And it becomes really like,
should the word mushroom be really big?
Should the word mushroom be on there at all?
Like, how do we communicate that this is joyful
and approachable and delicious and premium?
Like we're trying to do so many things.
And so, yeah, if you're kind of in that loop as a brand,
again, you can only do so many things.
And so are you either really focused on like,
revamping your website and having the perfect social channel
and having a perfect branding?
Or are you like, this is, this works for now.
And I'm gonna leave this and then be able to divert your resources
into really cool cultural moments and like moonshot ideas
and like not even in food,
but I think hello, Toshi is another like crushing it.
So much fun.
Talk about like potentially being polarizing,
like they take risks and are leaning in.
So cheeky.
So cheeky.
I love that.
Like I'll never remember this,
this Super Bowl giveaway they did.
I think it was last 2022 or 2023.
And it was like, show us a picture of your Super Bowl poop
and whoever has the best one gets $10,000.
And I was like, this is really marketing, baby.
Like $10,000.
Like I want that.
And like, first you're like, oh my God,
this is so crazy.
This is so broad.
You're pushing the envelope.
Yeah. Right.
And it keeps me intrigued.
Like I'm excited to read their newsletters
because I'm like, what cool puns are you coming up with?
And I'm a loyal customer.
I only buy my bamboo toilet paper, you know, from them
because they're constantly keeping me on my toes
and surprise and delight and just like making me laugh
and feeling like, yeah, this is quirky.
This is fun.
This is interesting.
As opposed to, you know, the brands
that become really stagnant.
I know it's interesting.
There are brands out there that just become very like,
okay, cool.
They don't mark it.
And then like, play it too safe.
Yeah.
And I think you lose a lot of your customers
and a lot of that like love and spark
if you try to play it too safe.
Yeah.
And also like sometimes it's really hard
to me, overall, I will say, but like sometimes you have
to just try something and pivot your way fucking through it.
Yeah.
And if it doesn't fucking resonate with your customer,
absolutely.
I mean, don't go and get canceled.
Okay.
Like I'm not saying that, right?
But what I am saying is like try to innovate
and ABI test, you know, segment, right?
Like try in like your email channels
or your SMS channels first, like before you go
and like buy the ad space maybe, you know?
Yes.
It's the consumer research part of it.
It's huge.
It's everything.
I know you're fucking customer.
Know your customer.
Yes.
Absolutely.
Know who you're speaking to and meet them at that level.
Yes.
Yeah.
It's like with any human, like where's your education level?
How new are you to this?
It's like an offering, I think, different levels
as you're talking about segmentation
based on how long you've been a customer, right?
That's also something we're constantly juggling with
is we want to continue to add value to consumers
that have been using our product for six, eight years, right?
But then we also don't want to be really heady
in talking about fruiting body extracts
and beta dee-glucans of these mushrooms.
Yeah.
To a new consumer that's like, you know,
I want to switch from my Starbucks
and try something a little healthier that's organic
and makes me focus better, right?
So yeah, having different levels and options
to get your consumer in the door
and then help guide them through their journey
where they're at.
So you're not giving them too much too soon
and you're not ignoring your really loyal,
dedicated consumers who keep your engine running.
Yeah.
God, so good.
All right, Danielle, we are coming to the end of the road
and I'm actually really sad about this road.
But we are now best friends 'cause like straight up,
we're talking more after this.
Hell yeah.
Where can the audience find you?
Brand, you can find us at Forsematic
or Forsematic.com on social channels.
Myself, personally Danielle Ryan Dawson
on social channels and Danielle Ryan Wellness is my website.
If you want to get really into Adaptogen,
so I'll make a little plug for our book too.
You can go to keelingadaptogens.com
and buy the book anywhere books are sold Amazon,
Barnes and Noble, you name it.
Amazing.
We're going to have everything in the show notes.
I, if you're interested in the subject,
I highly suggest reaching out to Danielle,
but checking out Forsematic as well.
And that's it.
As I said in the beginning,
I'm your host, Jess Servion.
And I appreciate everybody tuning in for another episode
of the Jews and I'll catch you next Thursday.
Thanks.
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