From Disney to HopSkipDrive: Why Empathy is the Heart of Every CX
Jess is joined by friend and mentor Michelle McCombs, Vice President of Trust and Experience at HopSkipDrive.
(upbeat music)
- My name is Jess Servion,
and I'm super excited to bring you my new podcast,
The Juice With Jess.
This podcast is gonna be about everything
in your customer's journey.
We're talking acquisition, awareness,
making that purchase, retaining that customer,
bringing them back around, and everything in between.
This is gonna be all about delivering dope brand experiences
and talking to some really amazing people
who are in the customer experience space,
the marketing space, and everything in between.
(upbeat music)
Hey, welcome back to another episode of The Juice.
With me, Jess, your host, listen, my friends.
I know I gotta say this every week,
but this week, I'm actually really serious.
I'm serious every week too.
My guest this week is Michelle McCombs,
and she is the VP of Trust and Experience
at HopSkip Drive.
Here's the thing, fun fact.
Michelle and I have known each other for,
I don't even know.
- Yeah, I was thinking about that probably three, five years.
No, it can't be three years.
It's gotta be like five years.
- It's gotta be five years, yeah.
- So Michelle and I met,
actually it was kind of in the height of the pandemic
when people really went online
and I was like seeking out mentors
to really help me excel my career in CX.
And I forget how Michelle and I met in particular,
but we started chatting and vibing and being homies,
and at the time I was actually living in DC.
- That's right.
- Michelle is in LA, I'm currently in LA right now,
but I don't live here.
Anyway, and so this is why I'm excited.
This is why I'm giving you this backstory,
because Michelle was actually one of my first mentors.
So it is fucking awesome to interview Michelle.
And on that note, Michelle,
why don't you tell the crowd who you be, girl?
- I love it.
- Yeah, Michelle McCombs,
I am Vice President of Safety and Experience at Hobscave Drive.
And I have been in the CX World, gosh,
looks like 15 plus years.
You know, working both at small startups,
growing with them and also got my base at Disney and Nestle.
And so I have the experience of working with large companies
and how they do that well,
and kind of translating that
to help small companies grow.
And it's been a wild ride.
- I know, that is so crazy.
Why don't you tell the audience who Hobscave Drive is?
'Cause I think it's really important to talk about
your company and what your company serves.
- Yeah, so Hobscave Drive is a technology company
that solves the complex transportation challenges,
where there's a high-level need for safety, equity and care.
So we kind of do this two ways.
One, with a marketplace where we help arrange transportation
for kids, older adults,
anyone that needs a little extra support
with our highly vetted care driver's own wheels.
We really emphasize that they're caregivers,
driving these people around.
And then we also have a software and advisory services
to really help solve big transportation problems
at schools, at school districts,
or having around the country.
If you're paying attention to the news,
there's a lot about bus driver shortages
and how to make things more green and transportation.
And we're helping really build that and use that
and be another lever for schools to use,
especially when they're having to cut costs
and get smart with how they're spending their money.
- Wow, that's amazing.
I think that the mission of your company is really awesome.
You know, I was actually just thinking to myself,
like, are your drivers in California too?
Like all over the US? - Yeah, we are.
- Okay.
- Yeah, we are in 13 states in Washington DC
with lots of growth and plan coming.
You know, we obviously want to get across the country.
The shortage, the problems,
the transportation solutions are everywhere.
And we're working on really building that out.
So home base is LA.
You know, the three moms that founded our company
are all here solving their own transportation solutions.
So we know that that's just,
that happened here because it happens everywhere.
- Yeah, that's amazing.
I actually will,
I want to look into Hub Skip Drive for my dad in Oakland.
- Yeah, we have a, it's a smaller contingency
of older adults, but it's so great,
especially the caregiving aspect that we're providing.
- Absolutely.
- You know, we have seniors that, you know,
they just, these are drivers that'll hop out
and walk them up to their door.
And you know what, we have in Denver,
I remember a story of a driver.
It was icy.
And so he came back with a shovel
and just scraped her walk so she could go on her walk.
And it's just like, that's the type of drivers
that we have on our platform.
And it just, it just makes it,
so you feel so much more comfortable using it
for people that need a little extra help.
- Yeah, I mean, talk about surprise and delight
and customer experience, right?
It's like the next echelon for that, right?
- Yes, yes.
- And it's fun for us because it's like,
we built the brand, but we rely on the drivers to do that.
- To deliver it, yeah.
And so how do we work with the driver community
and help them remember that and reinforce it
and celebrate it with them?
And it's a fun challenge to do.
- Yeah, that's amazing.
Well, before we get into like the nitty gritty of like,
you know, CX for you and like what that means.
And 'cause I can't wait to honestly share your story about it.
I learned so much from you,
so I wanna share this with everybody else,
but I really wanna talk about your background.
- Yeah. - Actually.
So you've been with Hop skip drive
for over seven years now?
- Yes, well, almost seven years.
- Almost seven years.
I think that that's really amazing,
especially in the startup world.
You know, it's like, like let's dive into that
for just one second.
Like I think in the startup world,
like a lot of people don't stay in the same company
for a long period of time.
Like what has made you stay at Hop skip drive?
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I should kind of surprise me every day that I'm still there
'cause I am a person that likes to jump and try new things.
And I always say, what gets me looking for my next job
is being bored and being like,
oh, this is what we've done.
I've solved this.
It's the routine.
Like that's great for some people.
It's just not great for me.
And I think that's part of why I say to Hop skip drive
is we went from, when I started,
we were just in California
and we're talking about expanding to Colorado,
which is our second market.
And with that, I've gotten to try different things.
I think at one point or another,
like a lot of the operational and customer facing functions
have been under me and popped in and out and stuff like that.
And I think that's part of why I love Hop skip drive
is we're willing to try it.
If it works, great, let's keep going.
If it doesn't, let's move on.
We've learned a great lesson.
And then the mission is really fun
because even with customer service,
customer facing roles, safety,
you hear a lot of the bad,
but we get to hear a lot of the good.
And it really is, like the driver
that shovel the sidewalk or just the engagement
that we see with the community
or the lives we can make,
a lot of the students we help our experiencing homelessness.
They're the foster system.
They have special needs.
And getting to hear like adding some normalcy to their life
and those type of stories really kind of keeps you
from burning out over all of the bad that can happen.
- Yeah.
Well, it's like really putting the empathy
and customer experience.
And I think, and we'll get more into this,
but I think that you guys also have
a very unique customer experience
because at the height of it all is trust and safety,
which is also a very big topic for, you know,
a lot of customer experience teams,
especially when you're dealing with a lot of customer data.
- Yes.
- And like, and I mean, you're dealing with like
very important data. - Very sensitive data.
- Very sensitive data.
And I think, and I actually think
that those customer experiences are very different.
'Cause I, I wanna say no, this was,
I joined this company after I met you,
but I joined, so I met you during a time
when I worked at a cybersecurity company.
- That's right, yes.
- Obviously like a lot of trust and safety there, right?
But then I went to HealthTech.
And so like in the HealthTech company,
HIPAA, like everything else, right?
So my point is though, is like, I can only imagine.
Like, I can only imagine you're dealing with like children.
- Yes.
- And like elders. - Yes.
- So I definitely wanna dive into that at some point.
But, you know, continuing on the path of like background,
I'd love to hear how like the company has changed
since you've joined.
- Yeah.
I mean, first obviously the size, I came in,
I think we were made, I would say we're definitely under 50,
maybe even under 30.
Now we're kind of at the 250 plus.
And you know, markets is there,
but what's super interesting and has been fun
and part of why it's never boring is when we started,
like I said, we're founded by three moms
looking to solve their own problem.
And so we were focused on the parents
and being very direct to consumer, right?
A parent books are right for their own kiddo.
And then, you know, a caregiver feels that right.
And it's after school practice, it's this and that.
And then we started learning about all the needs
for students that, you know, like I said,
students experiencing homelessness,
students in the foster program.
There's a lot of government funding
to make sure those kiddos stay at their school of origin,
which is super important for them, right?
So if you're moving around a lot,
at least you're out at the same school,
you have the same friends.
- Same consistency.
- Yeah, you're not falling behind.
And there's just, there hasn't been great ways
to do that well.
You know, schools, they either have to try to send out buses,
but it's really hard to send a bus for one kiddo,
or they give them a Metro Pass,
but you know, here in Los Angeles, especially like--
- Big cities, are you kidding me?
- An hour away, yeah.
And so it's just, it doesn't make sense.
And so a lot of kiddos were missing out on the chance
to have that normalcy because of it.
And so we got to, you know, being part of filling that gap
really helped us see that this is a huge problem.
And we wanted to be part of the solution.
And that's, so we made a really hard pivot
from really focused on the parents
booking rides for their own kids,
to what can we do to support the student transportation
industry and continue to support it and evolve with it
and help them, you know, like I said at the top, right?
Build better solutions and more efficient solutions
and be part of that helping out all the students
across the country.
- Yeah, absolutely.
Well, you know, transitioning to this, like,
and talking about like the transportation industry,
like what does that customer experience look like?
- Yeah, it's a fun one because, you know,
we have a lot of customers.
So we have our care driver community, right?
They're independent contractors,
they're choosing every day if they're gonna do
these rides or not.
And so we have to make sure we're focused on that experience.
We have the kiddos in the car.
We have their parents or caregivers, right?
Guardians, grandmas, aunts, uncles,
whomever may be taking care of them,
keeping their eyes on them.
And then we have our school clients.
And so, you know, usually we're working
with the transportation department
or a homeless liaison or something like that,
who, this is one of a million things that they're doing.
So how do we make it really easy for them to use us
and help us be part of that solution and solve
and help those kiddos?
And so we get lots of feedback
from a lot of different points about it.
And there's a lot of involved parties
to make sure that we're thinking about
and supporting well with all very unique needs.
- Yeah.
- And it's a lot.
- It's a lot.
And it gets even more like, you know, like,
oh, it's a school district, but a school district,
like, you know, we can have,
we're helping out students with special needs.
So we're working with the special needs department.
And then we have students experiencing homelessness
and that's their homeless liaison.
And then we have kiddos in the foster program.
And that's a different person.
And so it's like, it's one customer, right?
The one school district is our customer,
but four different people with four different
big different needs.
And those kiddos have different needs too.
And what they need and what they need
Hopskip Drive to do and how that experience is.
And so it is, it's a lot to think about
and prioritize and bounce between.
- Yeah, absolutely.
How big is your team?
Like your experience team?
- My team right now, we are at 63 and growing.
- Wow, yes.
- What is the structure of that?
- So I have kind of four pillars
of kind of the safety and ride experience.
So we have my Safe Ride Support team.
They are phenomenal.
They're kind of, I liken them to like an ER nurse.
They are dealing with the rides in progress.
So they are trying to just solve it
and go to the next thing, right?
They get all of this inbound, inbound urgent stuff.
And so they're just kind of like,
you know, good, okay, next.
And then they're just going and churning.
Then I have my in ride experience crew.
They're working on operational excellence.
What can we do to continue to deliver on our promise
of a great experience for all of our users on the platform?
What is the root cause of some of these problems, right?
So if there's a problem about the ride,
like a great example is we have an option
where parents can put parents or school,
can put in notes about the rider.
Like, hey, FYI, you know,
Michelle doesn't like loud music when she gets in the car
and it's like that, to how to make it successful.
And what we hear sometimes frustration from the schools
is why don't these drivers follow these notes?
But then we hear frustration from the drivers of why,
why are these notes so confusing?
They give me contrary information.
And so how do we get to the bottom?
The bottom is everyone wants this kid
or to have a good ride.
So what do we need to do?
How do we set up both sides for success?
How do we make sure that they know
what they should put in these notes
and what's important about it
and how do drivers know when to follow them
and stuff like that?
And so it is, that's kind of what that in-ride team is doing.
- Wow.
- And then I have my trust and safety team
dedicated to kind of the really the harder escalations
that happen, right?
There's vehicles on the roads every day
with different people having different experiences.
And so there's personality mismatches,
there's flat tires, there's just lots of different things
that they deal with and making sure
we have a great quality driver on our platform.
- Wow, that's crazy.
- So much.
- It's crazy because I remember meeting you
and your team wasn't that big.
- No, no.
- So that's a lot of growth, my friend.
- It's a lot of growth.
- That's pretty amazing.
- It's been pretty consistently too exiting every year.
So it's really exciting, but it's a lot.
- Well, I mean, this is actually a really good transition
because I actually really want to ask you questions
about kind of like what CX leaders
like should be looking at and stuff.
And so I would love to know from your CX leadership perspective,
like what are the metrics that you utilize
to ensure that your team is very successful?
- Yeah, I get a lot of different data points
and I like to look at a lot of different things.
I think one of the most important things
for especially when I say fried support saying
that we look at is what percentage of calls
are we answering in two minutes?
We kind of set the two minutes as like,
how long is it okay to say like,
this is a reasonable like two minutes waiting
to talk to someone about an urgent thing.
What percentage of the team is doing?
Like how many calls are heading that, right?
It's like, this is a team that they have to,
like sometimes the call is,
hey, I just want to, my app's not working.
Can you tell me the driver's on my way?
Yeah, the driver's there.
They're on their way, they'll be there in five minutes.
Great, bye, right, done.
Or there's a situation where a driver calls
and is like, hey, this kiddo is having a meltdown in the car
and they're hitting me and I need to pull over.
What do I do?
And so it's really hard to hold the team to like a handle time
because you want them doing 30 seconds with that,
one person and 10 minutes with the next person.
And how do you do that?
And so we've been really focused on
what are the service levels we look at handle time,
we look at average wait times like that.
But we really are focused on
and really hold the team accountable
for how fast are we getting to the calls?
How are we helping them?
We do, we call it average talk percentage.
So what percent of your time are you actively talking
to a customer or available to talk to a customer?
To, you know, like if you are,
if you're doing that, if that's really high,
then that's what we expect of you in your role.
And then we do satisfaction surveys.
Yeah.
As you do.
Yes, as you do, right?
But it's great because we use a system
that I think does a really good job really highlighting.
Like tell me about the specialist,
that's what we call our team specialist.
Tell us about the specialist and not necessarily
the situation, which I know is a lot of the big feelings
about satisfaction surveys is if you have to say no,
that they're gonna give me a no,
they're gonna give me a one and it's yeah.
I mean, you see that a lot,
like you definitely see that a lot,
like especially in like actually e-commerce, right?
Yes.
But e-commerce versus B2B is like kind of different, right?
So in B2B or like B2C, right?
'Cause it's kind of this mix, right?
It's like you have features and you do the things
and you have your end users, right?
So a no is kind of a lot different
than like an immediate no, right?
Exactly.
And then like an e-commerce where you're like,
no on a refund, of course you're gonna be like,
I'm pissed, right?
One, yeah, one stop.
And because then you're actually dealing with like
actual consumer behavior rather than just like usage behavior.
Yes, exactly.
So it's like metrics are like,
but I think that the metrics do intertwine, right?
Like satisfaction does intertwine on the same
on like whichever side you're on.
But I think that a lot of things are just very different.
Yeah, and it's like, I always emphasize to my team,
they're great, they're always like,
I just can't get to 100%.
And I was like, I don't want you to get to 100%.
That makes me think you're probably like just,
I don't know, giving away money
or doing things that you shouldn't, right?
And so it's like, that's why we do 90% is our goal
in our team.
It's like, that's why we do 90%.
And we understand that like,
even if you are perfect on every call,
like it is subjective.
And so how do we balance that?
But we're always talking about like,
how do we balance the efficiency and the quality
and make sure we're tracking both equally.
Yeah, I think that's also a really good call out too,
because like even for me being a CX leader,
15 plus years as well,
like I have only strived for 96% and above.
But I think that that's actually a really good call
that 90% is like better, right?
Like 90% is better because that 10% difference
isn't gonna make or break anything.
Like let's be fucking real.
You can very quickly find out if someone is like,
their scores are low because they're struggling
on the phone and they need soft skill work
or if it's just, you know what I mean?
Like it's like, you can, those people are,
they show themselves in other ways too.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
And again, sorry, last comment.
But like also I don't think your CSAT survey
should be indole-beal.
Yes.
You gotta look at the whole picture of it, right?
Yeah.
But I see so many people as just being like,
oh, I love a CSAT.
It's like, this is my only metric.
I'm like my dudes.
No, no, no.
My dudes.
Like you gotta look at the whole picture of it, right?
Yeah, because it's like the one,
and maybe like a long whole time comes into a CSAT.
Maybe this or that happens, you know,
then maybe you do get a lower CSAT
if you take 20 emails to respond.
Right.
But for the most part, you're not, right?
And so there's, it's important.
It's a good measure, but it's not.
And you know, especially for my team,
and you know, like I said, fast pace,
like a perfect CSAT probably means really, really low.
Come on.
And I need them to do both.
Apps to fucking loot, ladies.
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- Okay, so really interesting about metrics,
'cause I do understand that,
and I love the philosophy of it.
Let's talk about retention though.
How does retention work at Hop skip drive?
- Yeah, yeah, it's again,
where we kind of look at different angles
with all the different community members we have, right?
Like, care driver retention is monitored and cared about.
- Yes.
- By one team and rider retention, right?
It's an interesting one to play with,
because it's, did we lose the rider
because of a bad experience?
Or did we lose the rider because they've moved schools?
- Yeah.
- Or whatever it might be.
And then our client retention is really, really strong,
and that's, you know, very much due to,
we have a very dedicated account management sales team
that really makes the client feel heard.
What's great is like,
they're transportation people that we work with a lot,
and so they get that it can't be perfect every single time.
And what they love about us is that we're striving for it,
and that we're open and transparent about areas of opportunity.
So it's like, hey, we know that didn't go well.
We're not gonna pretend,
we're gonna tell you it didn't go well,
and we're gonna tell you what we're gonna do about it.
And that's really what sets us apart
from a lot of the other,
there's not a ton of players in this space,
but some of the other players in the space
is just that real, that ownership,
and that transparency and that relationship
that we've built with our community.
- Yeah, that's amazing.
I mean, yeah, I think it's very community driven.
Like, absolutely, and I think retention,
I mean, obviously retention is completely different
for y'all versus like another P2B company,
or an e-com company, or any of these things, right?
Like, there's no like real metrics
that you can put behind it.
- Yeah.
- Other than like, churn rate.
- Yeah, exactly.
And it's one of those two, it's like, we talk a lot
about how like, we need to be so focused on that experience
because there's only so many school districts.
And they talk, right?
And it's like, the microcosm you see of like a promoter,
detractor, and like, you know, a direct-to-consumer thing
is amplified significantly when there's, you know,
6,000 school districts across the country.
And so, you know, remembering that everything we do,
they'll tell their friends, good or bad,
and they rely on us is super important
for us and our growth.
It's helped us like, oh, they use you,
then we know you're great.
- Yeah.
- And it's also been like,
I was talking to my friend, she's worried about this.
How do we improve on that, you know?
- Yeah.
- And so it's really...
- Yeah, man, I think that word of mouth
is so interesting for retention.
You know, just, even in just being in this space, right?
Of like being a CX leader, but also like being
really like a lot of different relationships
with like partners, right?
And having a lot of different like advocacy,
like conversations, it's just really interesting
that like sometimes, and I'm saying this out loud,
and I'm saying this directly to the camera,
because sometimes your retention, my friends,
isn't just in your fucking metrics.
And then this applies to B2B, B2C, or D2C companies.
Sometimes you gotta go out there
and do the consumer research and survey your customers
or just experience the experience for yourself, right?
Because like what I've learning is like,
I'm learning and have recognized and just pointing it out,
the word of mouth carries more weight
than a metric sometimes.
- Yeah, yeah, definitely, yeah.
And that's, you know, and I think that's again,
where our client base really loves that we come in
and we talk to them and we bring donuts
and we build those relationships.
- Relationships.
- It's so critical and it's so key and it's like how,
I think, you know, thinking about that for any company,
you know, when I think about what type of CX experience
I like to build in my career, it's where, you know,
you know, there's the surprise and delight,
there's the effortless experience,
there's lots of different theories,
and I'm like, well, but like there can be both, right?
- There absolutely can be both.
- And catering it to what you need
and understanding who your clients are
is really the big, important thing there.
- Yeah, absolutely, understanding who your clients are.
I think also, 'cause I think this is really interesting
and really interesting also for the viewers and listeners.
So Michelle and I come from like a B2B background
that ended up maybe in D2C at times or B2C, right?
And I think that one of the things that I've talked about
a lot is how my B2B career has really influenced ECOM, right?
Like my ECOM career, right?
And you can flip back and forth between it.
And I think that there's so many lessons to be learned
on each side of it.
And so where I'm getting,
'cause I'm gonna land this plane, I promise you.
Okay, is that I've been on both sides
of customer support and customer success,
as well as product marketing, right?
And so, and I think that that like,
like when you think about it,
the relationship building aspect of it,
and so what you're talking about, like your client success,
but then you're all through your drivers
and then even in the individual,
that's relationship building.
And that's what makes a good customer experience, you know?
Effortless experience, absolutely, surprise and delight,
absolutely.
And I think that those things definitely all apply,
but when you look at your customer
or you look at your client,
it's the relationship building
that's gonna build things for you.
That I see you, right?
Yeah, it's that, you know, like I know who you are
and I understand your pain and I wanna solve it for you.
Which is, and I think that's, it can be, you know,
people talk about, oh, well, they, you know,
when you're hiring, right?
I started out very early on,
I started like online gaming and people like,
well, can you make that transition?
I was like, look, let me tell you about
what a customer is an online gaming is,
a passionate person willing to put their money
where their mouth is.
Like, that's something,
that's a customer regardless of what it is.
And it's, what's great is like,
what I appreciated in a customer is the passion.
And so I love that about a customer community.
I don't, like, when I think about where I wanna go
with my career and the different industries I've been in,
like, they've all built on each other
because at the end of the day,
it's appreciating the human and that, what they need.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think you also, I wanna transition real quick,
just because like, you're also one of my mentors, right?
Like, I've known you a long time,
but I think you just hit on a really good fucking point
to how sometimes people look at you in your career
and then you'll be like, oh, well,
how are you gonna do this and then do this, right?
Yes.
And so I think you're a story about like the online gaming
to switching to like, I don't know what was after that,
but like, all the movies.
Yeah, but now I'm in rideshare for kids.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, all over, yeah.
But like, the individual's philosophies about CX
can all relate, right?
I'm not saying it's all the same.
I'm not saying CX is all support-driven.
Different playbooks, different-
Absolutely.
Yeah, strategy, yeah.
Absolutely, but the reason I wanted to bring it up again,
'cause I mentioned this before in a previous episode,
but several episodes actually I think,
is that it's so interesting because I came from a B2B background
and to have then switched into festivals,
but I applied for so many D2C jobs,
so many D2C jobs, like 'cause I really wanted to,
like I wanted to build my career
and have that other like e-com side of it, right?
Yes, yes.
I think I knew you during this game too.
I think so, yes.
I remember when we could like start chatting more.
Yeah.
And yes, it was, it was.
And so, and I remember nobody giving me a chance.
And then I remember one of the feedbacks
from a very well-known brand said to me,
like, and it wasn't negative, it was nothing terrible,
but they were like, oh, your resume is like,
and your pedigree is so amazing,
but you don't have D2C experience.
And you're just like, ah.
I know, but what's so crazy,
what's so crazy about that is that
I then ended up got the,
you got the festival's job like years later, right?
And the reason I did is because I was like in Chicago
at the right place and like, they took a chance on me.
Yeah.
And you're just like, thank you.
Yeah, but like, that's my point though, right?
Sometimes take a chance.
Because somebody who might have a background
of flibidab or success or whatever,
if they're passionate about it
and they love your brand and they love
like what it is that you're doing or building,
they're probably gonna be a dope ass employee.
Yes, yes, exactly.
A fucking badass.
And like, I think I keep,
I always, I get to relearn that a lot
with my SafeRite support team, right?
Because like, who else is doing live monitoring
of rides with drivers, you know?
Like it's just, it's like, it's 'cause, yeah, exactly.
Right? And it's like, you know,
people are like, well, can you recruit from like 911?
I was like, no, I can't recruit 911.
Like, those people are highly paid professionals.
Like, or like, you know, like,
someone's like, how about air traffic control?
And I was like, I think that's a advanced degree.
Like, I need someone to answer phone calls.
And sometimes, sometimes I do need like that 911 brain
and sometimes I need the customer service brain.
And so it's like, you know, when I think about
what leaders I need in that team
and who I need on that team, I'm like,
I need a little bit, someone that gets,
understands like, their job is to make sure
things happen well and safely.
And that they need to be responsive and reactive.
And one area that I've been fun to recruit from
is like improv because the yes-and.
- Oh, yeah. - Because you have to get a,
you know, they get a wild scene thrown at them
and they're like, okay, I acknowledge the scene
and I'm gonna build on it, right?
And that's fun and improv,
but it works so well in customer service too.
But like, how many people are willing to take a chance
on someone who like their whole background
has been like comedy writing and improv?
- I know, I mean, honestly,
this episode will be after, right?
This episode, but this person that I'm bringing on,
Lucy Samuel, she comes from improv.
- Right? - Yeah.
- And what's really amazing about her though,
is she had a background in CX, customer experience, right?
- Yeah. - Previously and then after
and then like transitioned into DTC.
And now she's a fucking amazing copywriter
for e-commerce brands. - Love it.
- But that's my point is like,
everybody has a different background, right?
- Yes, and it's not like,
and immediately there's not a ladder too, right?
- Right, there's not a fucking ladder.
- No, like Chase, what's interesting,
it's like, that's like a hopscot drive,
you know, being there seven years,
it's like, I'm like, yeah, let me try it.
Let me see what, like, and then, you know,
some thing a year later, we're like,
well, that was a great try, you know?
- Yeah. - And I appreciate
when they're willing to take a chance on me, right?
- Yeah. - And see if we can do it.
And, but like, it's not,
it shouldn't be this prescribed thing.
- Right, absolutely. - And next job,
who knows what it will be, right?
Is it gonna, you know, like, I'd always joke about,
I'm gonna go open an Airbnb or something.
- Yeah. - Airbnb, but like a B&B.
And just like go be cute with that, you know?
- Do you wanna know what my dream is?
- What is that? - Okay, so my dream
is actually to get my herbalist certification
and start some sort of apothecary.
- Yes, let me know if you do.
- Oh, don't worry. - Don't worry.
Don't worry, we're manifesting over here
on this episode, okay?
- Yeah, I feel like a lot of people, like,
customer service, customer facing,
customer experience roles, like have that backup dream
of like just like a calm life, right?
- This is, you know, a calm life, absolutely.
It's so interesting as you get older,
like the more and more you crave it, you know?
- Examine. - Examine older now.
- Right, I'm not gonna let y'all know
how old I am, 'cause the Botox will be full in you, okay?
But I'm gonna tell you right now, mom's tired.
- Yeah. - Okay, she's high tech, right?
But I also really, like, I have this dream
of having my own e-commerce brand, right?
- Yeah. - 'Cause I know so much
about marketing, I know so much about customer experience.
I'm not saying I'm an expert, but any needs.
- No, but yeah. - But I love a trial
and error. - Yeah, yeah.
- I love a pivot. - I love this.
I'm gonna work for you. - Yes.
- I know, I want this full circle. - Michelle and Jess.
- I said it to Pothakary, let's go.
- Let's do it.
- Okay, wait, so, you know, I wanna ask you this question
because we're talking so positively about, like, people
who, you know, take a chance, do all these things, right?
And you're, man, you are a baddie leader, okay?
Like, you've been in the space for a long time, right?
I'm curious from you, have you had a terrible hire?
- Yes, I think that's like,
what are the best things I learned in my career is like,
how do you deal with that? - How do you deal with that?
- You can't bat 100, right? - No.
(laughing)
I know. - I know.
- I mean, I've had a handful, you know,
and some of it, it's, I talk a lot about skill and will, right?
And like, how, like, if they have the will to do it,
but not the skill, that's workable.
But if they don't have the will, if they are, you know,
if they are toxic, like that's what you gotta get.
- That's toxic, get rid of it.
- The toxicity, like, that's the one, oh my God,
that's the nail on the head is the toxicity
because it's like, it's not even just will.
It's like, if you are just a toxic person,
that is like a snake in the grass, you know?
- And one thing I found too is like, you know,
it's a small world.
- Doddard.
(laughing)
- You know, like, I'm always like, it's the way we,
like, you know, I've had people who have like,
exhibited in a blazer glory and like, a year later,
it's like, hey, I'm talking to this person,
I saw you work with them and I'm like, mm-hmm.
I would not rehire them, you know?
(laughing)
- Word of mouth.
- Yeah, it's a big, it's a big, and you know,
and it, and being smart about that, right?
Like, and just, you know, and I think it's just too,
like assume positive intent from people is important,
but also, you know, just remember, like,
people know each other.
The world is small, it is small.
- I mean, we're reproof, I know.
- I mean, I'm like, what did I find?
- One, two, three.
(laughing)
- For anybody listening, and we high-fived,
'cause Michelle and I do have a story,
but we are state in that line, my friends.
(laughing)
But yeah, I think you can't bat 100 on hires,
and like, and I think what's really important
as customer experience leaders,
like, whether you're in that position of like,
I'm managing the support team of the community,
trust and safety, whatever aspect that is, right?
The thing is, is that you have to,
you, I wouldn't say you have to,
but you are kind of at the core of the company's,
like, culture. - Yes.
- Right? - Yes.
- Like, it's really funny at Feast of Wills,
because I was, I'm sorry, everybody,
I like constantly talk about this scenario,
and I apologize. - Everyone knows what's just about.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- No, like, it just even about Feast of Wills, right?
But like, also Feast of Wills was my fifth,
and my fifth startup. - Yeah, and you did,
like, a phenomenal job there, and so.
- Thanks, girl. - You know it.
- A lot of sleepless nights, I'm really honest with you.
- Yeah, I'll tell you, I'll do that.
- But what I was gonna bring up about that is that,
I was like, fourth employee of Feast of Wills, right?
- Yeah. - So, so it's really funny,
because as a customer experience leader,
like, you, we have so much empathy,
and we're like, the moms, - Yes.
- For the dads. - Yes.
- Of, of the org, right?
- Yes, very much. - And it's so,
it's so hilarious, is that as we were building festivals,
I kind of became this pseudo-HR person,
but not the, - We're like, in a bad way.
- 'Cause like, we all know just drops an F-bomb or two, right?
But I became the person that everybody was like,
how do I get into this?
What do I do to this? - Yes.
- Or just like, I need career advice to do this job, right?
- Good job, like that, yes, I love that.
I, that's my favorite thing about,
especially like, you know, as a, as CX professional,
like, that's not any kids dream, right?
- Yeah. - Just to come in and--
- I mean, you walk in and say like,
"I'm gonna work for Cessmore Service today."
- I love it. - Yeah.
- And so I love, like, I love, you know,
I don't can talk about like my little baby birds
and trying to get them at every other department
of the company and being like,
let's, like, I have a person who knows this company,
take a chance and push on that.
And it's, it's part of, you know, like you said,
the team mom, - Yeah.
- I know, like cheerleader of--
- It's cheerleader though, yeah. - It's cheerleader.
I mean, like, the episode, you know, I'm not sure,
we're not sure of the order,
because obviously these things are recorded before,
but there's an episode with Mark Alves,
and he is the head of CX at Tastelude,
and like, I am so proud of him,
because I was his cheerleader, right?
Like I was brought into his cheerleader,
and like, that dude is doing some dope shit now,
but it's amazing. - Yeah, yeah.
- Like, he's a baddie, but like,
but he's like, that story about like being the CX leader,
right? - Yeah.
- You have these people that are just doing,
like, oh my God, my baby's gonna grow up, you know?
Like, look at you go, like, okay, you know?
And I think that's like one of my favorite things
about being a CX leader though,
is because we do have so much empathy,
and we are part of the experience and the culture,
that you end up making like, a lot of friends for life,
and seeing them like, really just like grow and thrive.
- Yeah. - I just fucking love it.
- Yeah, and it's like, I know people are like LinkedIn,
you know, like, it can get a little chaotic.
- Yeah, I mean, my LinkedIn is chaotic.
- But, I love it.
But like, it's also what I love too, is like seeing,
like being able to have a chance to see that
I actually, one of my employees at Disney,
he had posted about like, you know,
I took a chance on this job,
that I was not paying the bills, and you know,
and he's like, and look where I am now,
and I really, like, I'm so grateful I did that,
and I was like, I had like tears in my eyes,
I look at my little baby birds, like,
even X number of years later in my career,
seeing that is just, it's the empathy,
it's the, you know, it's the cheerleading,
it's the knowing great people can go do great things.
- Absolutely.
- But do you also think that is because we're millennial
CX leaders?
- Oh, interesting.
- There's like a whole like new thing
about the millennial manager.
- Yes, oh my gosh.
- Every time we watch this, like--
- I'm talking, I know, every single time I watch these reels,
I'm like, dang, that's literally me.
- Right?
- I know, I was like, oh, TikTok's got me good,
like they got my, they know who I am.
- Let me tell you.
- Oh yeah.
- It's creepy, but we're gonna roll with it
because they give those great millennial managers,
and we're like, that's so mean.
- I know, I know.
- Yes.
- Okay, I just wanna ask you like a couple of like
kind of technical questions that I'm really curious about,
'cause we're coming to the end of the road
in our boys to men voice.
- Love it.
- That's how you know we are millennials.
- Really?
(laughing)
- Not Gen Z.
- Yeah, I know, right?
- If you're Gen Z, you're probably like,
it's okay.
- Boys to men is great, go check them out.
Probably playing at a state fair somewhere near you.
- Probably not as many as when they were famous.
- Yeah.
- But you're a fan of mine.
(laughing)
Anyway, okay, so like your,
you're a company obviously, there's a lot of trust and safety.
There's a lot of like privacy
and you're dealing with very sensitive stuff.
I'm curious in your CX team,
are you utilizing any sort of AI?
- A little bit, it is, it's a hot topic, right?
It's hot, it's a little bit everywhere.
And because of the privacy stuff,
we're very nervous about it,
but you know, when I talk about like our software
and advisory solutions, like a lot of that is AI powered.
You know, we're helping school optimize
and look at students' routes and say,
hey, like the bus should exist.
Like we should not replace the school bus.
It's 60 kids and one vehicle going,
like let's help you look at traffic patterns
and what your needs are
and put all of these information into a data model.
And we're gonna tell you the best route
and we can save you money, we can save you time,
we can save, you know, inefficient bus usage
is horrible for the climate.
Like let's fix all of that and that's all AI powered.
And so it's like, it's definitely good.
I, I, we don't use it as much yet.
We wanna do a lot more with the trust and safety stuff, right?
How do we take like, you know,
you can do a positive or a negative, right?
So how do I say, like, how do I say,
like tell me who my problems are?
Like all of minority report
or you can take all of the data and information we have
and say like, these are my best drivers.
What is their common denominator?
How do I, how do I get other people to be like that?
Or what is, you know, like,
if you have a machine learning all of,
all of the things, all the million behaviors that happen,
like what is the chain of behaviors that we can do
to prevent like, do we have an interpersonal conflict
because the chain is, this driver's been back to back
on six rides and they've had full cars
and it's a heat wave in Texas.
And of course they're gonna explode when something goes wrong.
And you know, like, how do we, what do we do?
What can we do about that?
How do we, how do we use technology to give driver
better feedback about their driving behaviors?
How do we keep the whole, all the road saver?
And so a lot of it we're into discussion
because it's such sense of data.
We wanna make sure we do it, right?
We wanna be thoughtful about it.
You know, you know, putting stuff into the beast can be,
can be scary.
And so we wanna be thoughtful.
We know it's what's coming,
but we know it as a, how do we, you know,
I kind of always talk about, you know,
people talking about efficiency and this and that.
How do we do it?
And I always like to remind my team, like,
there's always gonna be things where you need a human brain
to do it, but let's have the robot do the stuff
that doesn't need, we always talk about,
if you need a heart and a brain, we need a human.
But if you need just a brain, let's have the robot do it.
- Yeah. - And that's kind of where we're at.
- That's a good, that's a really good theory about AI,
for sure, and that's a good way to like simplify it.
- Yeah.
- Okay, well, I'm gonna insert a Boyce Men song
in this moment, 'cause this is, is the end of the road.
- I don't know that.
Michelle, where can the audience find you?
- Oh, nah, nah, nah, nah.
No, I'm LinkedIn, obviously.
I'm a millennial, right?
I think LinkedIn's probably the place.
I get very like heavy in the knot.
I'm very fickle with my socials.
And so LinkedIn's gonna be best.
- Yeah, all right.
Michelle McCombs will put a link in the show notes.
And if you're interested in HopSqiv Drive,
we'll also put a link in the show notes too
for you to check them out,
'cause I think it's a very innovative company
to help with like elders, children,
anybody who like really needs extra care with for rights.
And that's it, my friends.
Thank you for joining me for another week of the Jews,
and I will see you, or you'll hear me next Thursday.
(laughs)
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That means that you like me and I like you,
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