How to Create an Ultra Luxe Customer Experience with Madison Must
Jess sits down with Madison Must, former Director of CX at Terra Kaffe and current Sr. Member Experience Manager at dog care brand Sundays.
(upbeat music)
- My name is Jess Servion,
and I'm super excited to bring you my new podcast,
The Juice With Jess.
This podcast is gonna be about everything
in your customer's journey.
We're talking acquisition, awareness, making that purchase,
retaining that customer, bringing them back around,
and everything in between.
This is gonna be all about delivering dope brand experiences
and talking to some really amazing people
who are in the customer experience space,
the marketing space, and everything in between.
(upbeat music)
And welcome back to another episode
of The Juice With Jess.
I am Jess.
And this week, I am joined by Madison Must,
one of my dear CX friends that we've never actually
met in person, but we met in a CX Discord.
I feel like I can tell everybody who you are,
but I don't want you to tell everybody who you are.
- Yeah, sure, I'd love to.
Well, thanks for having me.
First of all, I love the name Juice With Jess.
That's incredible.
Yeah, my name is Madison Must.
I have been in the CX world for a couple of years now,
so I got my start in CX at a startup called Terra Cafe.
So based out of Brooklyn, New York,
and at the time I started,
I think there were only like less than five people.
I was higher number five.
It was super early on.
I actually found the job through AngelList,
which is like old school.
I don't know if you remember them.
Like I don't know, I remember.
- I'm a millennial.
- Okay.
- I'm a millennial.
- Okay.
- I'm old.
(laughing)
So older school kind of, I guess,
older school way of finding startups.
I couldn't really get a job through LinkedIn
'cause prior to startups, I was a wedding photographer.
All my own business can chat about all that
and the way that it was its own CX.
But yeah, I was lucky enough to kind of grow through CX
at Terra Cafe.
I did start out in like a very entry level associate role.
I was taking on the phone calls, cleaning coffee grounds,
out of machines with my bare hands.
It was like very unglamorous, but just so much fun.
- Yeah.
- And my first real startup experience.
So I loved it and was able to really grow
throughout that role, but also grow my team.
And ended up, my final role there
was director of customer experience at Terra Cafe.
So amazing experience.
I was like three and a half years
and now I am at a startup called Sundays for Dogs,
which is a dog food subscription startup
and leading member experience there.
- Yeah.
- So yeah, that's my kind of professional spiel.
- Well, again, thank you so much for coming on.
I'm super excited to dive into your experience
'cause I think we actually have a very similar experience
becoming from like a creative background,
moving into like customer experience.
- Startups, like I know that founding employee moment.
Like I also was like number four at Feastables
and started the customer experience department there.
So like that was, that's, I know the trials
and tribulations.
- So get it over that moment.
But for the audience, like let's dive in a little bit
to your background.
So you got your first start in CX at Terra Cafe
and that was your first job in CX.
Did you know at the time what CX was?
- Definitely not.
I think I had an understanding
of like old school customer service
but I didn't really make the connection
until I was reading through the listing
and I was really doing research on the company
and just kind of realizing like,
oh, this company sells luxurious espresso machines.
It's not like your Nespresso kind of lower price point.
They're definitely ranging in the $1,000 plus range.
So in my mind, I'm like, okay, this is a customer
that has a really high bar, expects a lot of the experiences.
So that was my kind of introduction into it.
But what was interesting about that is, you know,
I thought there would be a lot of really
bougie rich customers and we definitely had those
but it was actually a lot of just families.
People who lived in the Midwest had saved up
and they would tell us they saved up
for literally over a year.
So it was almost like the bar was even higher
because there was so much emotion
and just consideration wrapped up in the product.
So it was a really interesting kind of customer experience
to have to deliver on.
Yeah.
That's brilliant.
It's, people say it's like the Tesla of coffee machines
but it feels like really the world's
roising coffee machines.
Yeah, that's amazing.
So I really wanna ask you this question
because like I know this from Feastables to,
what was it like working for a company
that puts such a strong emphasis on customer experience
but from the beginning?
Yeah, that's such a good question.
And it was so cool because I mentioned,
like I was higher number five and then my manager
and she was leading CX and still is leading CX
and Tera Caffe, her name is Kate.
She was essentially like higher number three,
one of the very foundational kind of employees
who not only built the customer experience
but had a lot to do with just the culture,
the way that the company kind of worked.
She's really close with the CEO.
So it was this really cool partnership
of them as kind of a duo
and her being able to always like bring it
into our strategy.
So like an example of that is really early on
when I started, we were launching our very first
like own machine that we had built from the ground up.
We already had our hero product,
which was doing really well.
But because you know, Kate, my manager was there,
I was there really early on, we did customer surveys
and incorporated a ton of that feedback
actually into the product launch of this V2
that just recently started shipping.
So that was really exciting.
But yeah, it was like a direct correlation
and direct impact on like customers
were literally telling us things in conversations
and we were able to put it into a new product
because she was so close
and because I was so close to that process as well.
Yeah, I think that that's like the really important thing
about when you start a company
that values customer experience from the beginning,
Feastables was like this, TerraCafe is like this.
A lot of companies are like this,
Ollie Pops even like this, like it's so valuable
to really set the standard for a customer experience
as experience for the company
because then you're going to value that feedback for one,
two, you're going to stick very closely to those customers,
but also it creates a culture within the company
so that every person like whether you're a supply chain,
whether you're product marketing,
it doesn't matter like you were going to be so
about customer experience.
And I think that that's really valuable
and I love that story.
Totally.
And it was so cool because that trend really carried on.
Like as you grow, it's definitely a little trickier
to you have all kinds of priorities as a startup,
as a business.
It's not going to be all customer all the time,
but that's where the conversations get really interesting
where product launches,
even just like different initiatives that we did,
whether we offer free shipping,
do we launch our own coffee?
Can we kind of bundle products,
things that came directly from customer feedback
that did really, really well and were really lucrative?
So able to tie those wins back to, okay,
but at the end of the day,
we're always going back to the customer feedback
and actioning on that
and having that from the beginning was so key
to just kind of making that part of the conversation.
Yeah, absolutely.
So switching gears a little bit,
just about, still about your background, right?
I'm super stoked for you and I love this about you,
like your story about how you like started
from wedding photography,
you moved into CX and then you forked your way up the ladder.
I would love to hear in your own words,
like what is it like working your way up the ladder
in customer experience?
'Cause I think it's really valuable for our listeners
to know that it's not just about like associate level positions.
Yeah, totally.
I feel first just like super privileged and lucky
that I got to experience every single step
and what was so great about starting is like truly front lines.
It empowered me to be able to be a really great leader
to everyone else who was coming into that exact role.
So they hadn't created the customer experience
associate role before I got there
and it seems very like, you know,
very standard and very entry level,
which it definitely was,
but I was able to be so close to the product,
so close to the customer, all the nuances of like,
there was a lot of troubleshooting involved.
That's a super kind of complex product.
It isn't just, where's my order questions?
To the point where, you know,
I was able to really take in all this information,
create training documentation,
create this kind of whole onboarding experience
for the team that we hired on after me
and be a part of that was really cool.
And it was also an interesting experience
where, you know, I went through my own hiring process
and then helped hire everyone onto the team
because I didn't have necessarily like
a traditional CX background.
I was able to recognize that in people
who maybe had the really strong skills,
but might not be totally considered
at like a larger company or a corporate company
or they're just trying to make a pivot.
So being able to experience every stage of
what is it like to actually be on the front lines
is what I call it because it's traumatic to say it that way,
but you know, it can definitely feel that way
in the day to day and then also experience
the kind of managerial leadership side of it.
I think having both just gave me a lot of empathy
for my team.
Yeah.
And exactly, like I knew exactly what they were going through
and I still carry that with me even in my new role
of just all the respect in the world for CX
and the associates on our team.
Yeah, they have so much, so much knowledge.
So making sure that's like really known
and there's this culture of respect around it,
which I think CX is doing really well at flipping the script
whereas before customer service is like,
oh cool, you do that?
That's, it wasn't this like whole industry, I feel like,
even though it definitely should have been.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, when I first started with my career,
I remember the first customer experience position
and that was so previously I had like worked
in the travel industry.
I was like a corporate travel agent.
I did a lot of that and then I moved into working at a startup
and I was tasked with at the time,
I was like, oh, I could do travel support, no problem.
I was running the operations team,
the travel support operations team.
And then I was tasked with taking the product support team
and the travel support team and quote on quote,
it was creating a holistic customer experience department
and I remember the time being like,
what the fuck is customer experience?
Like, right?
Yeah.
And I thought, I thought at that time,
it was like very service oriented.
But as I started like transitioning
and like going into like all of these things,
I learned that it was very much about the experience
of the customer.
It's like depending on like what your product was,
you know, whatever.
And it's like, and it's so important that customer experience
isn't just about customer support.
It's actually a piece of your brand marketing.
Yeah.
100%.
I feel like that's where so much crossover.
And I think our most like creative,
and I will say again, just like really successful
lucrative campaigns at Terra Cafe
came from a really strong partnership
between marketing and CX.
And we had leaders who really valued our feedback.
And it got to the point where our team was so kind of locked
in with our customers, where we could literally anticipate
how they would react to a certain, you know,
like piece of copy and being able to adjust it.
And or just like prepare for certain responses.
Like it became much easier to kind of influence
the customer experience that way
and just make it as positive as we can, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So one of the things that you actually said to me
off camera that I want to talk about.
So we obviously know you're creating like Terra Cafe
and then you recently switched to Sundays,
a dog food brand.
Yes.
But your role at Sundays is senior member experience manager.
And you said to me that member experience
and CX are actually two different things.
Yeah.
So I would love to hear how Sunday's is looking
at member experience versus CX.
Yeah, for sure.
It's, I love this topic.
And I have to give so much credit to my current manager
at Sundays, his name is Joe.
He's had an amazing career in just, you know,
CX from the ground up for years and years and years.
So really when I saw this role and applied for it,
I felt the same way where I was like,
oh, member experience, this is interesting.
And they really marketed this role as something separate
from customer experience.
So it all lives under this kind of like CX
and retention bucket.
But Sundays has a very core customer experience,
customer care support team.
And then now I'm hired on to do more of the retention focus,
more proactive campaigns, strategic outbound outreach,
specifically for our subscribers.
Because at the end of the day, it is a dog food subscription
company.
You know, we have like the prospective customers, one-offs,
people who are kind of trying and trying to decide.
But where myself and my team really focus is on like
creating customer loyalty, retention efforts.
And I'm actually now hiring out like a whole squad of MX
associates, which is really cool.
Yeah, it's really unique in the way that they're doing it.
Because I think oftentimes retention can live under marketing.
It makes a lot of sense.
We have our own kind of like life cycle retention efforts there.
But what's cool is there's a lot of overlap encouraged
between like the customer support, customer experience,
life cycle.
And it's this nice like middle ground where we're kind of
taking all of that and making improvements across the customer
journey.
But it's starting from a place of like customer feedback
insights.
Part of my team will be a few members from the existing
CX team.
So it's really cool and really unique how that's all kind of
living under CX.
And I think it makes a lot of sense too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. No, I agree with you.
I think that's really awesome.
I also want to touch on this point because you brought this up
that like CX sometimes like falls under marketing often.
But I think in every organization, it's very different.
Yeah.
Like when I was in B2B previously before being
an ECOM, I actually reported into like business operations.
And then I reported into product, like product marketing
and management.
OK.
Yeah.
And then when I moved like a very series of companies,
like different places, sales, like this place,
marketing, all these things and B2B.
But then when I moved into like ECOM, right,
I see X department was its own.
Yeah.
That's so interesting.
Which I actually like a lot better.
That the CX department department is its own.
But I know it's not like that in every organization.
But I do agree with you that like if it's not like that
in every organization, then it should sit with the marketing
team as much as possible because it is a part of brand marketing.
Right.
Yeah.
And then you really get the influence over pre-purchase
customer experience post.
You know, it's not just when something goes wrong.
CX is really able to have that influence over every single
touchpoint, making sure the narrative is consistent.
It makes sense.
But same here, like both organizations,
they've been a part of CX kind of stands alone.
And the people leading it and overseeing it just have a really,
really positive relationship with the senior leadership team
and the CEO, which I think goes a very long way.
Yeah.
We're kind of prioritizing retention efforts.
Yeah.
But it's tricky, you know, because there is such a focus on acquisition.
And for good reason at early startups.
But yeah.
Yeah.
I feel like Sundays is really kind of turning a corner
on prioritizing this across the business.
So there's been a lot of excitement around it.
And part of it is like the literal creation of these roles
where you're investing money and investing in people
to kind of do these retention efforts.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I also think you hit on a good point, though,
like from the acquisition point of view, like that is still a customer
experience, though.
Yeah.
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I'm interested in here.
I'm still stuck on the fact that you've had such an interesting career.
I don't think it's random.
I think it's like I'm very similar in that way.
I think a lot of people that get into this world are very similar.
I'm just really interested though,
how was it transitioning from Tera Cafe to Sundays,
going from this Tesla, coffee machines, to a dog food company that
dogs are family members.
Yes, 100%.
There's actually a lot of really interesting parallels.
I think that's part of when you interview somewhere,
you're just really looking for the connections.
It was actually easier to find that than I thought,
whereas first, just the way both companies position themselves,
as even though people are paying a premium for the products,
when you do the research into the category,
they actually are these really nice best of both world options.
We're like, "Tera Cafe isn't necessarily an espresso,
but there are like $10,000 espresso machines that,
if you're a coffee nerd, that's what you're going for.
You're really buying that."
But Tera Cafe just wanted to bring that like,
cafe quality experience to anybody's home,
really hitting on the mass market.
And a cafe?
Yeah, it has a cafe.
And Sundays is similar, where it's like,
it's not meant to be a niche product.
It's meant to be for the everyday pet owner,
who really wants a better option for their pets,
and for their dog specifically,
but is realistic about the fact that,
I'm door dashing three times a week,
am I really going to be taking things out of the freezer
and thawing it and making it for my dog?
I have the best intentions,
but what's the reality of that?
So it really combines the quality convenience thing.
So I actually found it really easy to speak to that,
and then people just are very connected to their purchases.
Of course, it depends on the company and the product,
but it's like innately understanding that,
and just kind of the why behind customers,
and their feelings about your brand,
and the product, and like,
I can empathize with saving up for something
for a really long time,
and then you have the whole emotional element of,
this is your family, this is your pet.
So I was actually able to see a lot of crossover in it.
So transitioning over,
it's been really cool to bring some of those lessons into Sundays,
but the model is actually pretty different,
which has been the most interesting part going from,
TK had subscription,
it just wasn't the bread and butter,
to now going to a company where that's literally the whole thing,
it's getting people to come back and purchase.
So it's actually really cool,
because everyone is so focused on retention in a way,
like that is your job of how do you get people
to keep coming back and subscribing,
and keep them happy ultimately.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, like retention 101, right?
Like how do you keep them coming back?
How do you approach a good retention strategy?
Like how do you go about building it?
Like I feel like everybody has a different approach to it,
like my approach versus your approach is going to be so different.
Yeah, yeah, it's a great question.
And I think again,
depends on like the stage that your company is at,
you know, Sundays is still pretty small,
we're like roughly 40 people,
it was a similar size at TK.
So it was already kind of used to that size in terms of people,
or maybe resources.
So the way that I really wanted to approach it,
I'm super honest in my, even in my interviews with them about,
you know, just the way that I kind of think about customer experience,
and retention and loyalty is,
I think your third first thought when you think of loyalty is like,
okay, points, rewards program, referrals,
all of those things that are super cool and important,
but I think actually the majority of customers
probably aren't going to participate in at the end of the day.
Again, like really important strategy work to be done there.
And if you do it right,
but the hope is that more people do kind of participate.
And that was part of my job at Terra Café,
but the way I really wanted to approach it at Sundays was
just getting a lay of the land of like,
okay, first core customer experience,
what is going really well, what is not going well.
Something like dog food has so many competitors.
People are like, you're going to get so many Instagram ads after this too.
I mean, phones probably listening to me at this point.
This is funny.
Yeah, I don't have a dog, but you know, yeah.
You will get, I mean, and you know, even just being in the D2C,
like e-commerce world, I'm sure that's like,
the pet industry has been blowing up and people have a million different
options.
So before we can kind of ask them to keep spending money with us
and come back and share with their friends,
we really have to get that core customer experience right.
And I think inevitably at startups,
there's just things that like can be improved.
And there's a lot of white space, which is exciting.
So my approach is like, start there,
and then you can build on the really cool things like
surprise and delight swag, loyalty.
Yeah.
And it'll go even farther because you have the foundations really right.
Yeah.
I think it's, I see brands often biting off too much, too much.
It's like doing loyalty.
It's doing this, it's doing that.
Like be at the core of your retention program,
which is like building the experience and then built.
Yeah, totally.
And that's exactly what you said, but like, you know.
Yes, because it's great.
If you can give people points and I don't know,
have like a really generous referral program,
all of that people will care about,
but it's like if they're not getting their packages on time,
especially with a category like dog food or whatever the example might be,
that just has to be right.
Otherwise, you know, that's an easy kind of out for people
to try another brand.
And there's just, there's too much out there for people to really go out and
try.
So you have to at least have that right.
I mean, yeah, I look at it.
There's so many.
Yes.
When I did have a dog, trust me, there were so many.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, totally.
Yeah.
And it's like, I think it's hard too for customers to differentiate.
And we just kind of assume that they know as much as we do.
And it's like, they don't care about the value prop or the,
this specific ingredient.
I think for a lot of people,
if there's just like something really wrong with delivery or websites,
hard to use or they can't get in touch with someone,
it just kind of goes out the window, unfortunately.
Right.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So I'm interested to know from like your perspective,
what other brands do you think that you consume, right?
That your consumer of has a really good retention strategy?
That's a great question.
So I have an answer to this that's changed over time.
I used to be all about Chipotle, all about the rewards program.
Yeah. I was like, this is so generous.
This is so genius.
It was a really basic points program,
but the way they had it set up, they had an app for it.
It was really seamless.
And they had really, really high touch support,
where it was super easy to get in touch with someone
when they like inevitably messed up your order and forgot five things.
And you're like, okay, it's fine.
Every time.
Because I know they're going to take care of me.
I know they're going to make it right.
Right.
Getting a response immediately,
they would add points to your account.
It was just very generous.
And then over time, they ended up kind of changing the model of how they did it
Because I'm assuming it wasn't super sustainable.
But now it's much harder to get in touch.
There's more of a chat bot element,
not as much like human support.
And then they just made it a little bit harder to kind of,
every time you were coming back and repurchasing,
it just didn't count for as much.
So I know you asked me for a good example.
I mean, they started out really great.
And I think it's just an example of all companies have to iterate.
But just kind of that strategy and how I found myself reacting the way any
consumer would have
like, oh, well, it was actually really nice to talk to someone when you missed
my corn
and would give me a whole free entree for it.
Even if it's not sustainable.
Just for.
Just for.
I'm that person who's like, I asked for extra.
But just some kind of middle ground where it's like,
people can still reach out even if you're not throwing money at them.
Like some kind of mix of support and loyalty strategy combined.
Yeah.
I felt like they were doing it really well.
And maybe it'll change who knows.
Yeah.
Maybe they'll listen to this podcast.
Yeah.
Maybe.
Totally shout out to you.
I recently had a really terrible, like not just customer experience,
but like retention experience even.
Yeah.
I'm not going to name names about this, but your chipotle story reminded me of
this.
But I had a suitcase that I've had for many years.
Okay.
And this suitcase at this point, like it's time.
Mm-hmm.
We got a retire of the suitcase.
Suitcase.
Okay.
And I reached out to a company and I was the company and I was like,
hey, like, you know, this isn't working.
These things like there's like certain features that it no longer has like the
replacement one.
They don't have the color like all this stuff.
And I was like, okay, like, disappointment, disappointment, disappointment.
And I like, and then I was like, okay, well, can I order this one?
And this color, but I'm going to have two in the same house.
So can I like pay to personalize it?
And they were like, they were just like constantly combating me about it.
Yeah.
And it's not even about like the experience of it.
But now, I mean, yeah, that was like bad, but now I'm like, you won't even work
with me.
I'm like trying to like, I'm telling you I have a problem.
Yeah.
Getting something new from you.
I'm willing to pay for this like additional thing,
even though you're covering like the whole replacement of this product.
Yeah.
I was super excited about you replacing the whole thing,
but like this one feature I can't even like pay for it
makes me not even want to use your company anymore.
But I purchased you because I had this like, you know, warranty, this lifetime
warranty on it.
Yeah.
So now I'm they're not retaining me as a customer
because I'm going to go and just like invest in somebody else.
Right.
And I feel like that's so common where it's, you know, I'm sure there was a lot
of
thought and strategy and money put into acquiring you as a customer,
whether it was through an ad or whatever it may be email follow up.
Any kind of like flows there.
But yeah, I think it's really unfortunate that once it comes to retaining
customers
and getting them to come back, repurchase people have had the product for years
and years.
I think it's unfortunately common that it's just like,
there's not as much thought there now, which is unfortunate with something like
a suitcase
where you travel a lot.
You are constantly showing your suitcase.
Like, that's a really, that's a huge missed opportunity.
Yeah, I know.
And I think a lot of customers have like, they're like money in hand.
I'm trying to work with you.
And there's just so many paper cuts.
I know.
And I think even being like CX people, we have more empathy.
You know what I mean?
Like, but I also have high expectations.
Exactly.
That's right. I was going to say.
Readably, I expected this.
But I have high empathy.
Right.
Right.
Switching gears completely.
Not about retention.
Not about CX.
Well, this is still about CX.
But I'm really interested to know if like, Terra,
Cafe or even Sundays, has any like, are you guys leveraging AI in your, your,
your programs?
Yes.
Great question.
Tell me.
And yeah, I love it.
AI by the way.
That's a stand for AI.
Ooh, she's a stand for A.
It's a saucy thing to say, but I'll say it.
Hot take.
I feel like it's moving.
I don't know.
I love when CX people are really pumped about it.
And I could do a whole like sidebar on it, which I won't.
But yeah.
So we use AI at Terra Cafe.
And we are at Sundays, we're implementing it as well,
which is really exciting to me.
One of the like last big projects before I left TK was setting up a convers
ational AI tool.
Nice.
And that changed completely like changed the business.
Because up until that point, we didn't even really utilize any kind of like,
chatbot on our
site that didn't go super well or any like, sometimes CRM tools have their like
built in AI.
It might not be as kind of robust, but we weren't doing anything.
We just had a fully in house team full time, you know, Brooklyn based, and they
were amazing,
super locked in.
But as far as like the scale and those really wrote, just like where my order
questions,
it got really hard to keep up.
Yeah.
And so that tool was huge as far as just handling volume, but doing it in a way
that still felt
like branded and high touch and personal and let our human team really take on
like the nitty-gritty
interactions, troubleshooting, you know, things we wanted a human eye on.
Yeah.
It was a huge help there.
And then yeah, Sunday's is implementing it as far as like a chatbot,
kind of like chat companion that lives on the site and then it's off to live
chat.
So that's an exciting new channel.
But also really personifying it.
So it's not this just kind of, I feel like when people hear chatbot, it's just,
I don't personally
love them either.
It can feel really like robotic or scripted or just you're pressing the same
button,
not able to get what you want out of it.
But I really see AI and CX kind of moving into a more like personalized
direction.
It feels more like a branded experience.
So like the AI at Sundays is, you know, we're branding it as like a dog, like
it's buddy,
the dog who's talking to you talking to you about your dog.
It's cute.
It's delightful.
People like it.
It's better than, you know, it's better than like clippy or whatever people
have.
Yeah.
They're like AI first, so not, but I really like that aspect of it because you
can still delight
people with that.
And it's like a self service tool.
I think is how we should be looking at it.
Absolutely.
I mean, this kind of leads me into like one of the next questions I'm going to
ask you,
but like I believe that like I'm such a person that like I will implement AI.
I don't think AI is coming for somebody's job.
Yeah.
Like because at times like you can really, my belief is that you can utilize AI
to kind of like
get rid of like those tier one types of questions, right?
Like where's my order or like product info or things like that.
And then your team has the ability to deliver like a more humanized experience
because they
have more time to actually sort through them.
Like I'm dealing with one of my freelance clients, like they have a backlog of
like 900
tickets.
And I'm like, and I was like doing an audit of like their site and looking
through things.
And I'm like, well, why do you have an email call out a contact S form plus
this chat bot
that's not really built out and you're not even like sending them to your the
FAQ page.
Like you like honestly, what we should be thinking about in a good customer
experience
and a good support experience is very much how can I help my customer service
themselves.
And it's not taking away that that agent away from them, but it's like training
your
consumer to educate themselves.
Right.
Exactly.
And that's what I think AI like will help do.
Wow.
I want to injure myself.
It's super.
I love it.
It's great.
It's super.
It's just like supplemental to your current kind of CX strategy.
It's I think about it in a similar way where companies have a hybrid like in-
house and then
BPO team that they're using.
It's just like different ways of making sure your customer gets what they need.
And I see AI as something really similar where you're just adding that on
because different
customers want to interact with you on different channels, you know, on their
own time off hours
and just giving people options.
Just making it really easy to reach a human I think is the most important part.
If that's what they want, you know.
Yeah.
No, absolutely.
Um, totally switching gears.
Yeah.
Nothing to do with AI.
All to do with marketing.
Okay.
Let me ask you this question because this is like my hot take of the week,
right?
Do you prefer as a consumer getting emails or SMS?
SMS 100%.
I know, right?
I love SMS.
And it's still for some reason it still feels novel even though it's not.
Yeah.
It's been around for a really long time, but I will open that always.
I think it's just, I think it's the muscle memory too of, you know, if I'm
getting a text,
I'm opening it.
I'm not really the kind of person who has 500 texts.
But if you are, then maybe, you know, that person would have a different answer
But I still really like it.
And I think it's, it feels more conversational just because it's literally in
text form.
And when brands do like photos and emojis, I think it's so much more fun.
Even if it is marketing, I'm like, okay, but they did a GIF.
And that was, you know, that did something for me.
I know.
I think that SMS is a brand loyalty channel.
Yeah.
Straight up.
Yes.
I really do.
And I get it like some people are still really about email, but I love SMS, man
I think it's like short and sweet.
Yeah.
Do you, do you have like any sort of like SMS flow set up amongst your team?
Like there's like things that I've done where you send, you get a message.
If I reply back, it still like goes down to like some sort of AI or even a
person.
Do you have meaning like that?
Yeah.
So we have an SMS channel as far as CX goes.
And then around the same time I joined Sundays, our really amazing lifecycle
lead joined.
And now she's really taking over like the actual welcome flows, SMS there.
I think that's a huge focus area for Sundays this year is getting really
strategic on that.
And what I'm so excited about is her and I will really work together on this
kind of one,
two punch of, you know, a lot of, I've seen some brands do like at TK, we did a
letter from CX.
That was like a really successful part of the post purchase flow or being able,
when people are
onboarding, having certain parts of like really high stake parts of the
customer journey,
being able to send them that personalized SMS and message that maybe they're
just more likely to
open, but then being able to follow it up with my team who can like really
field those kind of
right inquiries. And that's just part of the campaign strategy that her and I
really are working on
together is like, how can we have this almost dedicated team? And my whole like
hope and dream
would be when people are onboarding, you get assigned like a rep and you get an
SMS from them
that sounds personalized. They send you a photo of their dog, they transition
from Sundays or two
Sundays. And you can actually have two way conversations with them during your
onboarding
in real time if you need to. So it's like, things people are already asking
conversations that
are already happening with CX, but we get the points because we're doing it pro
actively and
doing it ahead of time. Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. Well, shout out to Sundays
and Tera Cafe for
like, honestly, having CX a part of the marketing. One of the things you really
hit on was like
having CX a part of like the life cycle. Yes, overall. And I think that's
really awesome.
Our time is coming to an end, my friend. But I really appreciate you coming on.
Madison, tell
tell the homies where they can find you. Yes, I'm on LinkedIn. I'm linked all
the way in. So you can
find me Madison, Madison, Madison, LinkedIn. And that's really it. Yeah, I mean
, I have, I
mentioned wedding photography. If anyone cares about that, Jess, I know you're
engaged. I can
send you lots of photographers. I follow a million. Madison must photo. But
yeah, for all CX things,
LinkedIn is the best way to find me. LinkedIn's bumping. We're having fun. I
have fun on there.
I'm treating LinkedIn like my Twitter these days. So I'm going to be honest
with you.
Well, thank you all for joining in for another episode of the juice. I will see
you next week.
Hey, wow, you made it to the end of the episode. That means that you like me
and I
like you, which also means you should subscribe to this show.
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